Comment 62 for bug 389176

David Siegel wrote:
> Keep in mind that File Roller represents an entirely new interface for
> users to learn. My mother and grandmother, for example, cannot figure
> out how to extract compressed files in Ubuntu because File Roller is (1)
> an unfamiliar interface and (2) expresses an unfamiliar concept of
> looking "inside" a compressed file without extracting it.

Thing is, they don't have to use the file File Roller interface to
extract archives. They only do because they've been taught to only use
one mouse button, and that's not what the majority of users are taught.
The majority of users would use the right mouse button, and if your
mother and grandmother hadn't been badly taught by Mac OS, they'd have
seen the "Extract" menu when right clicking on the archive.

> Yes, we plan to user test this (this is the third time I have said so).

What do you mean by "user test this"? If you plan to change the default
behavior on Ubuntu, and call that a "user-test", that's just as empty a
promise as what was offered when the new behaviour to notify updates was
proposed for Jaunty. So far, none of the people that vouched for it came
with any data to show it lead to people installing updates more often,
and in my experience it's quite the contrary (the update manager windows
always open in the wrong virtual screen, or behind applications, and the
inexperienced users I see end up not installing even security updates,
since they don't have the icon that tell them they should install updates.

If you do that, don't call it user testing. You'd modify Ubuntu to
behave the way it works for you and the few users you know, while
ignoring what others tell you, even when they're also inexperienced users.

> I don't merely believe that my mother and grandmother couldn't figure
> out how to extract files, I know they cannot because I've tested it. My
> mother and grandmother use Mac OS, where this is the default behavior.
> You're right, my grandmother did not understand the idea of an archive,
> but people have been sending them to her for years, and she has managed
> to extract them successfully and get at the files inside them all along.
> On Ubuntu, she utterly failed to extract the archive, as did my mother.
> So, is Ubuntu "Linux for Human Beings (but not for mothers)"?

Your mother and grandmother are hardly the kind of "inexperienced users"
you should take as a reference. They've been conditioned by Mac OS
  to expect a certain behavior, and also to ignore the right button. If
Mac OS users represented 90% of the userbase, that would be a valid
input, but they don't. People that aren't experienced with computers
(and especially not Mac OS) don't mind using the right mouse button,
quite the contrary, since that's one of the first things they learn -
right button is safe, left button can lead to unpredictable results.

> Yes, Ubuntu will break "industry standards" when we've found a better
> solution. Adhering to "industry standards" despite potentially better
> solutions is a great way to inherit historical flaws and forfeit the
> opportunity to be excellent.
>
> Of course feedback on this bug is valid user data, but it is very hard
> to make decisions with all users in mind using information provided by
> the most sophisticated and often forgiving users, which you represent.

Nope. I'm talking with the feedback I have from my mother, my wife, and
my students, all inexperienced users. They aren't "forgiving" users, and
the concerns I've raised and seen raised in this bug report are valid,
they're based on years dealing with computer-illiterate users.

As for industry standards, I hope we're not going to side with those set
by an OS that has had to cope with a single mouse button for ages, and
thus ended up having to use hacks like the one that's proposed in this
bug report.

Extracting on double click raises a lot of problems, even when we
disregard the mess it would cause for users looking into multiple
archives for a special file (a common activity I've seen with
inexperienced users and experiences ones alike - actually more often
with inexperienced users).

Whatever you suggest we didn't try it, I did. I right mouse>extract each
time I was going to double click on an archive, and I can tell it ain't
pretty. And that's still nothing, because as a slightly experienced
users I can deal with the root system getting filled without knowing it.
I know most users don't understand when it happens, and call me because
they eventually "got a virus" on their Linux install.