Ubuntu Server Guide Not Installed On Servers

Bug #45944 reported by Lukas Sabota
18
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu)
Invalid
Medium
Ubuntu Documentation Project Team
ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu)
Fix Released
Medium
Steve Langasek

Bug Description

There is a section of the Ubuntu documentation targetted towrads Ubuntu users using the server/ubuntu-minimal install. However, this documentation is not included with the ubuntu server install. Furthermore, there is no console yelp equivilent. Yelp is not useful for servers, because servers generally do not install an x-server.

Perhaps a plain text version of the documentation could be included in the server install? Or perhaps w3m and an html version?

Tags: serverguide
Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote : Re: [Bug 45944] Ubuntu Server Guide Not Installed On Servers

Thanks for your bug.

On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 02:20 +0000, Lukas Sabota wrote:
> Perhaps a plain text version of the documentation could be included in
> the server install? Or perhaps w3m and an html version?

It's a good idea, we could produce a separate package for the server
install. Let's think about that for Edgy.

M

Revision history for this message
Martijn Heemels (yggdrasil) wrote :

I second. This is especially annoying since this Long Term Support release will likely attract more server installs. I couldn't view the serverguide on my server. There are dozens of dependencies, such as firefox, and the result is still not viewable without X.

There is actually a softlink from /usr/share/docs/ubuntu-docs called html, but it points nowhere. I filed a bug #47016 for this.

Revision history for this message
Dean Sas (dsas) wrote :

I'd guess that lots of people installing Ubuntu on the server likely have a ubuntu desktop with the server guide already on. Those who don't can read the documentation on the web. Upon release the server guide will be available on http://help.ubuntu.com in both HTML and PDF format. (currently it's on http://doc.ubuntu.com)

Revision history for this message
Jerome S. Gotangco (jsgotangco) wrote :

An HTML version would be nice especially that ubuntu-server has a LAMP setup. In the LAMP setup, the DocumentRoot is empty. Perhaps creating a default webpage with a link to the server documentation is a good idea. However, this could pose some silly questions on security (having the manual online) if you're setting up a server exposed to the net..

Changed in ubuntu-docs:
status: Unconfirmed → Confirmed
assignee: nobody → ubuntu-doc
Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Subscribing ubuntu-server team - what do you think guys? If we supply you with the Ubuntu Server Guide[1] in html form, are you able to whip up a package to ship it by default with servers?

[1] Current draft at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/

Changed in ubuntu-docs:
importance: Low → Medium
Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

The ubuntu-serverguide package is now in the repositories and has been seeded for server installations for Feisty.

Changed in ubuntu-docs:
status: Confirmed → Fix Released
Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote :

Reopening. For gutsy, the ubuntu-serverguide is on the server cd but not installed by default.

We'd probably need to modify the server cd seed.

Changed in ubuntu-docs:
status: Fix Released → Triaged
Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Was it removed for a reason?

Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote : Re: [Bug 45944] Re: Ubuntu Server Guide Not Installed On Servers

On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 07:37:19PM -0000, Matthew East wrote:
> Was it removed for a reason?
>

I don't know. I'm not sure that the server guide was added to the
default installation. It was added to the server cd in February
(http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.hardy/revision?start_revid=colin.watson%40canonical.com-20070228214718-2n4kx7t3ee678avu&file_id=x_Colin_Watson_%3Ccolin.watson%40canonical.com%3E_Mon_Oct_10_22%3A50%3A09_2005_20236.0).

Could you confirm that it was installed by default ?

Revision history for this message
Neal McBurnett (nealmcb) wrote :

Interesting. It isn't clear to me that there is a single tasksel option that is shared by all server installs. The ubuntu-seeds STRUCTURE file has the server-ship seed (for what gets on the cd I guess) and then stuff like lamp-server and dns-server for specific tasks. I guess we could use a server-documentation seed and a server seed that depends on it, and which the other server seeds depend on....
But I don't know the implications of adding new seeds.....

Revision history for this message
Neal McBurnett (nealmcb) wrote :

ubuntu-serverguide should probably also depend on a textual browser, like w3m or lynx, rather than firefox. lynx seems to offer more obvious help than w3m, though it is "optional" while w3m is "standard", so I'm curious about that. And I don't know which does a better job with multiple languages.

But it is nice to be able to follow links in the guide.

The README file should be more helpful, giving a link to the html files, some tips on reading via lynx or w3m, and how to dump it out as text, etc.

Revision history for this message
Nicolas Valcarcel (nvalcarcel) wrote :

If it's included by default it MUST be in plain text format, because most of the server-admins prefer to use minimal installations and then add by hand the packages they want, and IMHO i will be very disappointed of ubuntu if the minimal installation includes such things as lynx or w3m.

Revision history for this message
Nicolas Valcarcel (nvalcarcel) wrote :

If we want to follow links, info is the correct way i think

Revision history for this message
Neal McBurnett (nealmcb) wrote :

Hmmm. Yeah. Server admins may be nervous about network clients like lynx and w3m on their machines.

Info doesn't (yet? :-) seem to have those risks, and has nice help at the top of the screen, and an index of local help topics. It can also dump info to plain text, and it is really small. And we have other doc in info format already: /usr/share/info. And I think docbook already exports to texinfo format.

Revision history for this message
Neal McBurnett (nealmcb) wrote :

On the other hand, it isn't clear how well the texinfo format and info command handle multiple languages and translations.

Revision history for this message
Nay Myo Win (nmwin) wrote : i m from ubuntu

find a job for me
i m http://mygoldenstuffz.googlepages.com

On Nov 7, 2007 12:34 PM, Neal McBurnett <email address hidden> wrote:

> On the other hand, it isn't clear how well the texinfo format and info
> command handle multiple languages and translations.
>
> --
> Ubuntu Server Guide Not Installed On Servers
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/45944
> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
> Server Team, which is a direct subscriber.
>

--
Nay Myo

Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote : Re: [Bug 45944] Re: Ubuntu Server Guide Not Installed On Servers

On Tue, Nov 06, 2007 at 10:13:34PM -0000, Nicolas Valcárcel wrote:
> add by hand the packages they want, and IMHO i will be very disappointed
> of ubuntu if the minimal installation includes such things as lynx or
> w3m.

The ubuntu-standard seed has the w3m text browser. Thus the default
install of ubuntu-server comes with it.

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Is ubuntu-serverguide seeded yet in the standard ubuntu-server install?

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

I'll add ubuntu-meta to the bug tasks, as that package provides the seeds as far as I know.

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Triaging and milestoning

Changed in ubuntu-meta:
importance: Undecided → Medium
milestone: none → ubuntu-8.04
status: New → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote :

There isn't any ubuntu-server seed. Installing the serverguide package by default would require the creation of an specific seed, just to install one package.

It would also go against the principle to install a minimal set of packages for ubuntu-server. The serverguide package is not required on an apache2 or mail server in production.

The reason to install the serverguide by default is to improve the first time user experience. Bug 159371 may provide a different approach.

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

I may be a bit slow, but what is the Ubuntu Server Edition? I see there is a separate cd for -server on releases.ubuntu.com - there is no way to control what packages are in that?

Revision history for this message
Mads Peter Rommedahl (lhademmor) wrote :
Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Mads Peter Rommedahl
<email address hidden> wrote:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition is Ubuntu
> Server Edition

Yes, I was aware of that! That's not quite what I meant by my question
- please read it in context with previous comments.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote :

As of now, the ubuntu-server cd is setup to install the packages from
the ubuntu-standard seed. So the server install can be viewed as a
subset of the desktop install. Packages that are shipped by the server
cd are defined with the server-ship seed. So there are packages on the
server cd that are not installed by default.

The current way to add new packages to the ubuntu-server install is to
add a new task in taskel (such as mail server, print server, etc... that
we did for gutsy).

However installing the serverguide package doesn't really fit in
tasksel.

I'm also not convinced that installing by default the serverguide on
every server install is the right thing to do - see my comment above
[1].

[1]:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/45944/comments/21

--
Mathias Gug
Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Mathias Gug <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> As of now, the ubuntu-server cd is setup to install the packages from
> the ubuntu-standard seed. So the server install can be viewed as a
> subset of the desktop install. Packages that are shipped by the server
> cd are defined with the server-ship seed. So there are packages on the
> server cd that are not installed by default.

Right, so if we want to solve this bug, we could add the
ubuntu-serverguide package to the server-ship seed?

> I'm also not convinced that installing by default the serverguide on
> every server install is the right thing to do - see my comment above
> [1].

I have to say I don't really understand your position: taken to its
extreme your view means that no documentation should be installed with
the server edition. The serverguide binary is not a large one and
personally I think it's a shoein for inclusion - it's the only
document we have which comprehensively describes how to use the
operating system in one place.

But, since I haven't put much work into this document myself, I don't
really have an interest in pursuing it further than that - the server
team should decide. I've only posted on this bug because I perceived
the view of the documentation team to be that this document should be
shipped.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

Revision history for this message
Adam Sommer (asommer) wrote :

Hello,

For me the deciding factor is, will the documentation on the web site be updated on launch day? If it will take some time before the site is updated than I think the package should be installed by default and the motd updated with instructions on viewing the local docs.

Personally I look to web documentation before using local copies, but from earlier comments others probably do the reverse.

Thanks,
Adam

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Adam Sommer <email address hidden> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For me the deciding factor is, will the documentation on the web site be
> updated on launch day?

From experience it will take at least some time, although we might be
better organised than previous releases, you never know! Also,
translations are not included in help.ubuntu.com, although they are
included in the local package.

> If it will take some time before the site is
> updated than I think the package should be installed by default and the
> motd updated with instructions on viewing the local docs.

Another option would be to add details on how to install the local
package and view it in the motd.

--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote :

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 08:10:13AM -0000, Matthew East wrote:
> > If it will take some time before the site is
> > updated than I think the package should be installed by default and the
> > motd updated with instructions on viewing the local docs.
>
> Another option would be to add details on how to install the local
> package and view it in the motd.
>

I'd rather opt for this option.

--
Mathias Gug
Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com

Steve Langasek (vorlon)
Changed in ubuntu-meta:
assignee: nobody → vorlon
Revision history for this message
Steve Langasek (vorlon) wrote :

>> Another option would be to add details on how to install the local
>> package and view it in the motd.

> I'd rather opt for this option.

That seems to be bug #159371, then. Does the patch at the end of that bug address this issue to everyone's satisfaction?

Revision history for this message
Mathias Gug (mathiaz) wrote :

Works for me.

Revision history for this message
Martijn Heemels (yggdrasil) wrote :

That seems reasonable enough. Since we apparently can't distinguish the
server version from the desktop version this general message is a reasonable
pointer to the relevant docs.

This does not resolve the issue of the guide not being available to people
experiencing problems with their network config after the server install.
They obviously can't access the online doc and might turn to the guide for
help. I was in this exact situation at one time and went looking for the
server-guide in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/. This directory was incomplete
so I filed https://launchpad.net/bugs/47016. This has been fixed by removing
it.

However, i think the amount of people that would run into this would be
small enough to ignore. The chances of no working network config after
install, no other computers with web access nearby and turning to the
server-guide for advice on this issue are pretty small.

Revision history for this message
Steve Langasek (vorlon) wrote :

The patch for 159371 has been uploaded, so I believe this bug should now be considered resolved (or at least as resolved as it's going to get for hardy).

Changed in ubuntu-meta:
status: Confirmed → Fix Released
Revision history for this message
Mads Peter Rommedahl (lhademmor) wrote :

Pushing for a conclusion...?

Revision history for this message
Jonathan Jesse (jjesse) wrote :

We can mark as fix release correct for the Ubuntu doc side of things?

THanks,

Jonathan

Revision history for this message
Steve Langasek (vorlon) wrote :

It seems there's discussion of having a base "server" seed for other reasons (c.f. recent discussion of w3m on the ubuntu-devel list), in which case it's probably worth getting the Ubuntu Server Guide seeded there?

Revision history for this message
Adam Sommer (asommer) wrote :
  • unnamed Edit (785 bytes, text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1)

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Steve Langasek <
<email address hidden>> wrote:

> It seems there's discussion of having a base "server" seed for other
> reasons (c.f. recent discussion of w3m on the ubuntu-devel list), in
> which case it's probably worth getting the Ubuntu Server Guide seeded
> there?
>
>
Yes, I think that would solve the possible issue of needing documentation,
but aren't allowed/able to connect to the internet.
--
Party On,
Adam

Revision history for this message
Nick Barcet (nijaba) wrote :

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:49:31 -0000
Steve Langasek <email address hidden> wrote:

> It seems there's discussion of having a base "server" seed for other
> reasons (c.f. recent discussion of w3m on the ubuntu-devel list), in
> which case it's probably worth getting the Ubuntu Server Guide seeded
> there?

That is indeed the plan and was part of the conclusion of our
discussion at UDS.

Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Reopening this bug, as per Steve's comment at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/45944/comments/36 it should be possible to seed ubuntu-serverguide for intrepid now that there is a server seed.

Changed in ubuntu-meta:
milestone: ubuntu-8.04 → ubuntu-8.10
status: Fix Released → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
Matthew East (mdke) wrote :

Closing the ubuntu-docs task, as this bug needs to be fixed in ubuntu-meta.

Changed in ubuntu-docs:
status: Triaged → Invalid
Revision history for this message
Colin Watson (cjwatson) wrote :

This is fixed in Intrepid; there's now a server seed containing ubuntu-serverguide, and it's installed by default.

Changed in ubuntu-meta:
status: Confirmed → Fix Released
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